Author Topic: vibeo game???  (Read 4483 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SquareWheel

  • Administrator
  • Cutest
  • *****
  • Posts: 395
  • Cutes: 45
    • View Profile
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #105 on: August 13, 2017, 01:27:12 AM »
Nostalgia mixed with VR immersion, maybe?  I haven't heard that description yet.

dcco

  • Cuter
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • Cutes: 17
    • View Profile
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #106 on: October 04, 2017, 04:49:23 PM »
anyone played cuphead yet?

dcco

  • Cuter
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • Cutes: 17
    • View Profile
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #107 on: October 04, 2017, 05:05:10 PM »
also im hype that a hat in time is finally coming out

hubol

  • Cutester
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
  • Cutes: 74
    • View Profile
    • hubolhubolhubol
  • Pronouns: he/him
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #108 on: October 04, 2017, 10:27:41 PM »
i havent played cuppyhead.... from the vides ive seen it seems like all the boss have a billion more health than necessary with really simple patterns

juner

  • Cutey
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • Cutes: 28
    • View Profile
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #109 on: October 04, 2017, 11:57:24 PM »
cupshead seems to have stirred up a fair bit of interesting discussion about difficulty and accessability in games re: gating off content behind difficulty (i believe the easy difficulty removes phases of bosses and you can't access the last few bosses?) & skipping bosses etc in general. which seems to have come about particularly with cuphead because a lot of people just wanna experience the artwork and animation i think

anyway it's night and i probably can't think of anything too coherent or interesting to write atm but i've been thinking a lot about it lately

dcco

  • Cuter
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • Cutes: 17
    • View Profile
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #110 on: October 05, 2017, 03:45:37 AM »
i respect cuphead's decision to still make the game they wanted to make despite putting lots of time and effort into it and the potential of alienating some of the players. although it does make me realize that when i saw its kickstarter i didnt really know anything abouut it other than "cool gfx"

SquareWheel

  • Administrator
  • Cutest
  • *****
  • Posts: 395
  • Cutes: 45
    • View Profile
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #111 on: October 05, 2017, 01:55:43 PM »
I suppose you can look at it as removing content from easy difficulties.  Though I'd rather look at it as additional reward you unlock from beating harder difficulties.  Sort of like how games add new things in New Game+ modes.

juner

  • Cutey
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • Cutes: 28
    • View Profile
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #112 on: October 05, 2017, 04:24:31 PM »
Yeah, I think I agree.

Like, in my mind, the Cuphead devs have sought to make a challenging game. They've made a concession by including an easier mode, but they want players to play at the intended difficulty, to have that particular experience, so they've incentivised it with exclusive content.

One of the sentiments I've seen a fair bit is whether it's elitist or a barrier for greater accessibility in games to deny a player content or progress when they can't get over a difficulty hurdle. Should every game accomodate for every player and let em get to the finish line by skipping levels and bosses? Basically the "books don't stop me from reading the next page but games do" argument.

I can kinda feel this argument moreso in cinematic story-based games i guess, where the main reward for progression is generally distinct from the actual gameplay - the story continues. But a lot of games are much more mechanically driven, where e.g. the reward for beating a level is more levels. and you wanna get more levels because the new levels are interesting. and the interest manifests because the new levels offer a new challenge and the gameplay escalates.

So I guess the recent discussion has come about because of a mismatch in peoples expectations and desires for Cuphead? There's an audience that is primarily interested in the game for its art and the reward they want is to see more of its art. And contrary to that is the dev's intentions which is to make a mechanically-driven boss rush game with a unique art style, where the reward for progression is more elaborate and challenging bosses. (side note: i think i read an interesting article once about art style informing gameplay and audience expectations, maybe i'll find it again some day)

Idk I'm writing a lot of words about the design of a game I haven't actually played.

But yeah I feel difficulty is a cool design choice that the medium allows for, and I dunno if I entirely agree with the notion players should be able to skip whatever in any game when so often difficulty is intertwined with narrative, or getting player to feel a particular way. Like that one boss at the end of the evil Undertale route is very difficult, but that's storytelling, and even the player retrying the boss over and over (or giving up even) is implicit and explicit storytelling. And the impact of that would be lost if you could just tone it down.

And some devs just want to make a game that is difficult. I think that's cool! But I don't think difficulty or challenge is some necessity of games. It's important that there are lots of different people making lots of different games for different audiences, and I don't really like the idea that 'being good at games' means 'can beat difficult games'.

I've not really built up to any big conclusion here... just mostly trying to rationalise my thoughts to myself by writing them down. Look forward to next time when i write about my increasing insecurities regarding games being about killing or dying  :dancedog:
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 04:43:10 PM by juner »

vgperson

  • Cuter
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Cutes: 41
  • guess i'll have to... make them fall.
    • View Profile
    • vgperson.com
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #113 on: October 05, 2017, 08:44:26 PM »
I played Cuphead! And its whole design kind of hinges on being challenging, such that I don't think there's any great "solution" to be implemented for the issue.

If there were easier difficulties that didn't leave out anything, people would instead be complaining that you can beat it/see everything too quick that way. If you could outright skip bosses, that'd be even worse, and just result in frustration with bosses harder than the one you couldn't beat. As it is, I think you can get a fair amount of the experience of playing by doing bosses on Simple, plus doing that is supposed to help you practice to beat those bosses on Normal.

The argument that you should be able to see all the art even if you're not good at the game feels like asking for something the game's fundamental design can't fully accomodate. It's a challenging boss battle game first and foremost, with the art and audio being a fun aesthetic to go with it. It wants you to learn how to beat the challenges it presents, and it makes a definite effort to make them fair. If you're unable to meet those challenges and go watch videos to experience the art, it really wouldn't be all that different an experience from any in-game solution I can think of. Maybe you'd like it if the bosses just went down really quick, but that's a fundamentally different game from what it was designed to be.

Also, for what it's worth, I think the bosses have pretty much just the right amount of health per phase to make that phase last an appropriate length. But there are a few things that shift that around which might have been in play in the videos you watched: weaker weapons (I almost always used the default shot, but there's a homing one that does less damage, for example), extra-heart items that reduce attack power, and Expert difficulty (which I haven't gotten into yet, but it apparently increases boss health a bit).

dcco

  • Cuter
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • Cutes: 17
    • View Profile
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #114 on: October 05, 2017, 09:17:42 PM »
yeah there's definitely some subversion of expectation going on here. but i feel like a lot of that isnt the game design but just the result of getting triple A exposure despite being an indie game at the heart of its design (in this case i think that means not necessarily conforming to industry difficulty expectations)

dcco

  • Cuter
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • Cutes: 17
    • View Profile
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #115 on: October 07, 2017, 09:09:31 PM »
got hat in time..... only played a little cuz my controller isnt detecting but it's really cute and it controls really nice

hubol

  • Cutester
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
  • Cutes: 74
    • View Profile
    • hubolhubolhubol
  • Pronouns: he/him
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #116 on: October 07, 2017, 09:24:59 PM »
am i a poopface for thinking that hat in time doesnt look very good visually?????? i dont know anything about it but the first time i saw it i was a bit like ``yucky``

aimaina

  • Administrator
  • Cutester
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
  • Cutes: 61
    • View Profile
  • Pronouns: she/her
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #117 on: October 07, 2017, 11:11:04 PM »
huh when i first heard about it it had a cute wind-waker-esque art style i think..... i dont like the new style as much..... the lighting seems weirdly dark for such a colourful game

dcco

  • Cuter
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • Cutes: 17
    • View Profile
Re: vibeo game???
« Reply #118 on: October 08, 2017, 06:16:45 AM »
the game is a bit rough around the edges i think. i agree the graphics are a bit visually busy. the voice acting is also *super* hammy im gonna see if there's a mumble voice option b/c it is actually ridiculous. and some stuff which i think is supposed to be charming in a kind of universal way, comes off as a little hokey / childish. but ive been reading a lot of good reviews and the little bit i got to play was fun so i am excited nonetheless?