Cutey Zone

General Category => Cute Discussion => Topic started by: aimaina on October 01, 2017, 02:52:49 AM

Title: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 01, 2017, 02:52:49 AM
hey everyone if you didnt know i have a new game in the works..... its a platforming

heres an example

(https://i.imgur.com/8feyeqW.png)

you can play an early demo with 15 levels here love-game.net/jump3/002 (http://love-game.net/jump3/002)
(i just added 5 levels today so thats why some of them are marked as "new"....)

if you play it be sure to post your "stats" in this thread.....

im going to be posting updates every so often on my twitter @sylviefluff (http://twitter.com/sylviefluff) like i did for cute witchy house.... ill probably repost some of the more significant updates here as well

thanks for reading......
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on October 01, 2017, 03:30:12 AM
I will follow your twootles.  I like platformings.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on October 01, 2017, 04:33:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/o39uRZy.png)

I played the previous version, so don't actually take my Double Spiral stats as a sign it's too easy, I died at least 25 times. Also, I died a bunch on Climber just because I tried to take the shortcut... but obviously you put that there because it's possible, right??
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 01, 2017, 04:55:09 AM
lol i actually didnt notice the climber shortcut, thats cool.... its pretty easy when you realize you can do it with two max-height jumps, cutting your second jump short will kill you usually

maybe i should switch spikey drops and chaotic realm.... i thought the former was kinda tricky and the latter pretty easy but its hard to tell these things

thanx for playing.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on October 01, 2017, 10:49:44 PM
sylvie i stink at your game but its cute...
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 01, 2017, 10:51:36 PM
nice did u beat any levs.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on October 01, 2017, 10:55:56 PM
https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/GMYIN15.png
 :dancedog:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 01, 2017, 10:59:50 PM
nice i bet u could beat a few more if u tried ur best.... :honeydew:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on October 01, 2017, 11:52:10 PM
yes!!
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on October 02, 2017, 02:29:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wfuNsjV.png)

still gota do the last levels, i did better than i expected i would though!

would you be able to move the spawn closer to the end of the ledge in Spikey Drops? otherwise there's like a two second period of just walking right everytime you restart...
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 02, 2017, 02:38:02 PM
yeha i probably could.... the reason i made it like that is so you have time to react when entering from the previous level & holding right.... i think i need to think of a better solution to that than just making every level start off in a "safe" area
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 02, 2017, 02:40:35 PM
what were the trickyest jumps to do in boomerang?
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on October 02, 2017, 05:39:20 PM
most of my deaths were in the top half, i think when i managed to make it to the lower half i only died maybe 10 times tops. probably the second jump in the level was the trickeyest
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 03, 2017, 10:53:47 AM
im trying to implement game pad support and i dont know how to handle the case where someone has two gamepads plugged in and configures some actions to use gamepad 1 and other actions to use gamepad 2

maybe i should just have the key config screen print "fuck off"
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 03, 2017, 10:59:07 AM
oh i think instead of just storing a gamepad button for each action, i should store a pair [gamepad id, gamepad button]....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 03, 2017, 11:50:14 AM
i feel like theres so many things that could go wrong with this...... like what if a gamepad is in "slot 0" when you first configure it, but then the next day you plug it in and its in "slot 1" so everything doesnt work? is there any guarantee that if you only have one xinput gamepad plugged in, it will always be in "slot 0"? that would be nice but the manual doesnt say whether it works that way so idk if i have to do a bunch of weird bullshit to make gamepads work nicely
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on October 03, 2017, 01:27:08 PM
i feel like theres a lot of really bad possibilities for gamepad support. are u able to handle disconnects n shit too?
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on October 03, 2017, 02:15:50 PM
this blog post (https://www.yoyogames.com/blog/75/how-to-setup-and-use-gamepads) seems to suggest gamepads will usually be 0 indexed... doesn't say much about if you have multiple gamepads plugged in, whether they could change slots every time you reboot.

maybe on loading a new game, if any of the controls are assigned to a gamepad or multiple gamepads you could ask them to hit a button on the gamepads they want to use in order and then have a lil lookup table the slots? and also backup keyboard controls if they have no controller plugged in

i have a bunch of xinput/directx controllers so i can test weird edge case stuff if you need
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on October 03, 2017, 06:28:50 PM
I think you can generally assume that people won't try to mix multiple gamepads in a single input set; it seems like way too much of an edge case for the headache it would be. I know in Unity the gamepad indices can completely change around with disconnects, and I can't imagine Game Maker would be much different in that regard. (Although Unity does lack a way of directly checking the "name" (i.e. "XBOX 360 Controller") of a specific gamepad, instead only offering an unpairable list of names, so GM might have an advantage there...)

All To Get Her just stores the basic button/axis names - which gamepad IDs it checks for those depends on the mode. The game assumes that the first gamepad to press anything was Player 1, although when you're in One-Player mode, it actually takes input from any gamepad, which is what you'd probably go with for a single-player game. If you try to enter Two-Player without it knowing what ID Player 2 is yet, it asks for manual calibration (Player 1 press a button, Player 2 press a button). It can also determine which player has which gamepad when they're used to make assignments in button config.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 03, 2017, 08:43:35 PM
thanks for the commentz..... i think ill check for input from all gamepads like vg said, that seems like the nicest way to do it.... i actually already coded a (terrible) system for dealing with mixed inputs from multiple pads but itll probably break if gamepad indices change unexpectedly so ill just scrap it

one thing i havent implemented yet is "nice" names for buttons, like displaying "B" instead of "Button 1" if you are using a 360 controller.... vg how did you do that in atgh? what pads do you detect and how? im guessing if a pad name contains "xbox" (case insensitive) i can use xbox button names and if it contains "playstation" i can use playstation button names? i cant find a list of common gamepad names so im hoping theres nothing stupid like a playstation controller that just calls itself "dualshock" or something and doesnt have playstation in the name....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on October 03, 2017, 09:10:51 PM
Yeah, I have it check if the names match the two controllers I have (contains "XBOX 360" or "Logitech Dual Action"), and if so, it converts the button names. (It also uses this knowledge about the axes to help improve how analog control works, but 1/2, 3/4, etc. pairs for sticks may be a safe enough assumption for unknown types.) Because of the aforementioned Unity issue, it can't determine the type of a given controller when there's more than one type plugged in, which is why the user can change that setting manually.

I couldn't find anything on controller names I was willing to trust enough to use without actually owning the controller, but there are some mappings out there: 360 (http://wiki.unity3d.com/index.php?title=Xbox360Controller), PS4 (https://www.reddit.com/r/Unity3D/comments/1syswe/ps4_controller_map_for_unity/). And I feel like it really might be safer to check for DualShock over Playstation? Or both.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 03, 2017, 09:32:36 PM
oh game maker has nice gamepad constants like gp_face1 (A on 360 and X on ps), gp_axislh (left stick horizontal axis), gp_shoulderr (right shoulder button), gp_padd (d-pad down) so i dont need to worry about determining what like "button 5" or "axis 7" is for 360/ps controllers.... i just need to know whether im dealing with a 360/ps controller or some other thing

i think ill just detect xbox (360 and one, although i dont actually have an xbone controller to test with....) and ps controllers, and not worry about nice button names for other controllers....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 03, 2017, 10:03:20 PM
oh no the dualshock 3 has "start" and "select" buttons, but on the dualshock 4, "start" is called "options" and "select" is activated by pressing the touchpad
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 03, 2017, 10:15:47 PM
lol i found some thread saying that the mapping between gm constants and playstation face buttons given in the docs is only correct if you are making an actual ps4 game, and its different if you are using a ps4 controller on windows..... gamepads are a nightmare

so i think i wont be supporting nice button names for playstation controllers.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 03, 2017, 10:54:20 PM
the gamepad adventure wouldnt be complete without bizarre differences in behaviour between windows and html5.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 03, 2017, 11:17:03 PM
on html5 my xbox controller is just called "xinput" instead of anything with xbox in the name..... it seem bad to treat anything called "xinput" as an xbox controller so i guess i cant provide nice button names for xbox controllers on html5.....

also my snes usb controller doesnt work on html5.... it doesnt detect up or left on the dpad
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 03, 2017, 11:59:30 PM
love-game.net/jump3/003 (http://love-game.net/jump3/003) this is the gamepad version.... u go to options then key config to set up the gamepad....

i found out that chrome can detect 360 controllers correctly but firefox seemingly cant, so the nice button names for 360 controllers should work in chrome.... you might have to restart chrome before it detects your controller at all though
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 04, 2017, 12:18:15 AM
also this page http://html5gamepad.com/ is a useful way to check if any gamepad issues that arise are specific to my game or just a general html5 thing
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on October 04, 2017, 12:20:09 AM
also my snes usb controller doesnt work on html5.... it doesnt detect up or left on the dpad

I wonder if this is something like each direction is its own axis, instead having horizontal and vertical like normal, so it only checks those first two for right/down? I feel like GM's ""Nice Constants"" may actually just be a bunch of assumptions being applied to the raw stuff. Anyway, it seems to work.

And to be fair, who starts coding a browser expecting people to use gamepads with it.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 04, 2017, 12:26:03 AM
theres a way to just loop through all the axes and apparently my snes pad just has two, which correspond to up/down and left/right.... on windows it can detect negative values for those axes but on html5 it just cant. its really weird
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on October 04, 2017, 04:48:57 PM
cutey graphics
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 06:17:12 AM
love-game.net/jump3/004 (http://love-game.net/jump3/004) hey another update...... its got a bunch of new levs.....

theres also a controversial new "checkpoint" system.... its explained in the first two levels but basicaly u can press down when on the ground to set a checkpoint. u only get one checkpoint per stage but after u set it, u can choose to pick it back up and move it to another place..... however if u die while theres no checkpoint on screen its back to the start with ye

curious what everyone thinks of the check points and how u decide use them.....

btw any vgpersons out there may want to try beating the levels without using checkpoints or they might be too easy.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on October 08, 2017, 07:10:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IOJ9C80.png)

You can probably guess, but the vast majority of my Entrance X deaths were on the first jump, which took a while to even get certain of the right timing. The checkpoint would make that a lot easier though. The mechanics seem sound to me. Maybe you should denote it when you're able to beat a stage Without The Power Of Checkpoints (i.e. you're good at level start, you're not good if you respawn at a checkpoint, you're good again if you respawn at the beginning), but maybe it's not really necessary. Also I just came from doing most of the bosses no-damage in Cuphead so maybe don't listen to me.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 07:26:02 AM
i think the ending screen will have "number of checkpoints used" or something similar as a stat along with deaths/time..... & i was also thinking of having a final secret course unlocked by beating expert course checkpointless.... maybe i should be lenient and only count it if you actually respawn at a checkpoint (so you dont ruin your checkpointless run by accidentally placing a checkpoint) but i dont know how i would communicate that it works that way

interesting that the first jump of entrance x is that tough if u havent done it before.... did you do it by holding right the whole time or did you stop in between the last set of spikes? im not sure which way is easier.... maybe its too mean to make that the very first jump in expert course
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on October 08, 2017, 07:33:14 AM
I think it's logical that a checkpoint won't count against you if it never actually gets used. But is there a reason why using them for a time but ultimately doing a complete run of the level shouldn't count?

I just held right and found like the only timing that gets you between the three on the bottom and top (jump at last second almost touching the top spikes, then jump lightly at lowest point possible). You aren't saying you can stand between spikes right next to each other, right?
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 07:49:27 AM
i meant did u do this
(https://i.imgur.com/qOWFVYt.gif)
or this
(https://i.imgur.com/QClmfFU.gif)
i think the second method gives you a slightly bigger window to time the double jump, but the first method is nice since you dont need to stop moving....

I think it's logical that a checkpoint won't count against you if it never actually gets used. But is there a reason why using them for a time but ultimately doing a complete run of the level shouldn't count?
i just think its easier to explain the concept of "do not use checkpoints" than "checkpoints are allowed, but you have to eventually clear your checkpoint and beat the level from the beginning". the sentence "to unlock this, beat expert course without using checkpoints" is easy to understand but i cant think of a good concise way to communicate the second concept....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on October 08, 2017, 07:59:47 AM
More like the first one, though I feel like I must not be good at pressing jump for such a short time as to get a double jump that low - it feels like I'm able to make it through because I've cleared the spikes by the time I go that far up. So if it were four spikes long, I would need the super-short tap to make it.

If you said something like "beat expert without needing to use a checkpoint," that would make sense to me.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 08:19:47 AM
reading your post more closely it sounds like you did something like this?
(https://i.imgur.com/XOXPSmP.gif)
geez doing it that way is hard..... no wonder

if you cant do hops of the same shortness as me thats maybe a problem..... i hope its not like an issue with your keyboard or something (in aiwanas theres a thing where certain keyboards cant do 1-frame taps & it makes some jumps impossible....)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on October 08, 2017, 08:23:24 AM
Yeah, that's it. My keyboard can do taps that let me double jump less than the distance between the spikes, it's just tricky.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 08:45:18 AM
can u post ur results for this Small Jumping Test.....

1. go to entrance x
2. press ctrl+F
3. tap jump as lightly as you can
4. the number of frames between key press and release will appear with each tap
5. post ur results

this was mine....
(https://i.imgur.com/8BhpVVU.png)
note that its effectively random whether a tap with length less than one frame returns 0 or 1..... this vid is a good explanation as to why

but ideally u should be able to hit either 0 or 1 pretty consistently.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on October 08, 2017, 08:53:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/8Sv6Jki.png)

Well.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 09:01:34 AM
wow interesting.... the jump at the start of entrance x is pretty tough to do with a 2-frame jump and much easier with a 1/0-frame. i guess maybe i should lock the minimum jump height at the 2-frame height and design the whole game around that? thats so weird......
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 09:06:21 AM
i hope there are no slow ass keyboards/gamepads that only hit 2/3 frames minimum or something instead of 1/2 or 0/1.... i dont have my gamepads with me to test how they perform
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on October 08, 2017, 09:35:26 AM
"Beat expert without respawning at a checkpoint"?
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 09:46:51 AM
what vg suggested is that you can set checkpoints and you can even respawn at them, but you arent allowed to complete a level starting from a checkpoint.... if you have a checkpoint active then you have to remove it, die and restart from the beginning, and then beat the level from the beginning without respawning at a checkpoint

it makes sense since it shouldnt really matter if you use checkpoints for practice or whatever as long as you eventually prove you can clear each level without a checkpoint.... but i still think it would be difficult to convey how it works
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on October 08, 2017, 09:55:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/WAHJFg6.png)
dunno why the text overlaid itself a few times but it's mostly 2s and 1s, a few 3s

oh i probably hit ctrl+f multiple times whoops

new cleaner vers:
(https://i.imgur.com/xuwYMBw.png)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on October 08, 2017, 10:07:26 AM
When mashing jump.

(https://i.imgur.com/2uTQhct.png)

When very delicately pressing jump.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZIYiRkJ.png)

I'd probably mash the button in regular play though.

Logitech G710, mechanical blue switches.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 10:32:34 AM
hmm.... this game runs at 30 fps so 3 frames is 100ms..... i think its reasonable to expect keyboards to respond faster than that? maybe? it seems like cook is right on the 3-frame threshold

im not sure either mashing nor pressing "delicately" is ideal..... maybe can u try quickly striking the key? the goal for this test is to minimize the time between key press and release....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on October 08, 2017, 11:14:25 AM
I would say the first test above was rapidly striking the key.  That's what I would expect during regular gameplay.

The second test I was aiming to minimize key held time - eg. not bottoming out but only just triggering the actuation point.  Still got 3's consistently.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 02:35:52 PM
ah ok thanx.....

so with a "normal" quick keypress, you average around 6 frames (200ms) between press and release? thats scarey because its tough to even get past the second level if you cant do 5-frame or lower jumps easily..... i might have to rethink the design of this game a lot if i want it to be playable on all keyboards
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 02:56:39 PM
heres the diff between 3 frames (left) and 6 frames (right)
(seizure warning?? i added a blue flash when the button is pressed and a red flash when its released)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
6 frames is just high enough to faceplant you into the lower spikes....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on October 08, 2017, 03:43:54 PM
Well I tells ya what I'll try the game and see what happens.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on October 08, 2017, 03:53:33 PM
I was able to beat level 2.  Some of the low jumps were pretty frustrating, but it was doable.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 03:58:38 PM
im glad you could beat it but unfortunately the low jumps arent really meant to be any harder than the other kinds of jumps....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 04:35:26 PM
i wrote some code that simulates this type of "input lag"..... turns out the game is perfectly playable with a minimum input length of 5 frames (even entrance x is completeable using vg strats for the first jump....) however a 6 frame minimum makes some basic jumps impossible (like the second jump in spike pillars)

so i guess ill design everything around the 5 frame minimum.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on October 08, 2017, 04:44:32 PM
Sorry!

Have you considered using something designed for pressure-sensitivity like gamepad triggers?  Not exactly an ideal jump button, but as you seem to be making a very technical platformer it might be worth considering.

Or another idea is to exaggerate the frames.  So whereas before each individual frame modified jump height, instead every second or third frame could be "significant enough" to modify height.  eg.

Release on Frame 1 or 2 = Low jump
Release on Frame 3 or 4 = Mid jump
Release on Frame 5 or 6 = High jump

Or some variation thereof.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 05:21:14 PM
u dont have to be sorry :honeydew:

hmm i have gamepad support but the triggers just behave like regular buttons..... not sure if its worth making them work as fancy analog jumping controls, that seems like something few people would use

"frame exaggerating" is an interesting idea.... it would help even things out a bit across different keyboards, like if frames 1 and 2 did the same jump then it would sorta equalize me & vgs keyboard, & if frames 5 and 6 did the same jump then you would be able to do small jumps much more consistently.... ill probably implement it & see how it feels

i wonder if its possible to get consistent at hitting 5-frame inputs (or lower) on your keyboard with some practice? the hardware can detect inputs as short as 2 frames, so maybe theres a better tapping technique u can use.... i usually hover my finger like 1cm above the key and then forcefully strike it, which is quite different from my "mashing" technique (rest finger on key and vibrate) but maybe u mash in a more strikey way
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on October 08, 2017, 06:14:36 PM
Well I'm using mechanical blues so you kind of need to look at the point they actuate, and why the release might take longer.


When I could successfully get a "2", it was a very light press without bottoming out the key.  It was at the point where the stroke barely registered before the spring pushed it back up.

Using the "forceful strike" method you described, I can get 3s but not 2s.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on October 08, 2017, 06:16:04 PM
By the way I really like the checkpoint system.  Risk vs reward is one of my favorite topics of game design and it's cool to see interesting new ideas.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 08:07:39 PM
yeha it makes sense that mechanical switches would take a bit longer to register a key release, especially compared to "island-style" keyboards like the one on my laptop. my concern was that the figures u were getting from mashing were like, 5-6 frames slower than my keyboard, which seems more than "a bit" longer.....

if you can get 3s fairly consistently using the "forceful strike" method, that seems pretty reasonable, i think that means your keys are like maybe ~60-70ms slower to release than mine? as opposed to like ~160-200ms slower or something....

also thanx :honeydew: i wasnt sure about adding checkpoints but i think i like em now....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on October 08, 2017, 08:34:57 PM
would it be feasible to do something that "rounds" the button frame times into certain intervals? for instance, if you let go between 0-5ish frames it does jumps of a certain fixed height, and then like 6-8, etc? idk if that would fit your vision for the game design or w/e tho
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 08, 2017, 08:40:58 PM
i think thats basically what cook suggested earlier..... i might try it out and see how it feels. im thinking ill probably keep the current system though & just design the levels so that you dont need to do jumps less than X frames (probably with X = 5, since that seems like a good balance between lenient for players & flexible for level design)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on October 08, 2017, 09:21:40 PM
oh wait yeah somehow i didnt comprehend cook's suggestion even though it was basically mine lul
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on October 08, 2017, 09:57:44 PM
ducko
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on October 08, 2017, 09:58:25 PM
It was actually a pretty easy miss, but it felt good to say for old times' sake.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 09, 2017, 02:34:32 AM
the cook/ducko gambit is actually hard to implement....

i mean, if i wanted frame 1 to behave like frame 2, frame 3 to behave like frame 4, etc. that would probably be easy, just pretend the button is held down for one frame longer than it actually is

the problem is that because of the way jump heights are currently set, i actually want it to be the other way around: frame 2 behaves like frame 1, frame 4 behaves like frame 3, etc. & i dont think i can do that nicely since i cant know whether the button will be released on the next frame
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on October 09, 2017, 03:12:33 AM
Maybe you could cheat a little and basically recalculate your position and speed as if the key had been released a frame earlier. That could get a little messy if the "real" movement makes you hit a spike, but I think it'd work?
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 09, 2017, 03:40:14 AM
yeha thats what i tried for a while....

lets say the jump height is 6 and the gravity is 1, and releasing the key cuts vertical speed in half (with integer division), and the jump button is pressed on frame 0....

frame 0: vsp = 6, y = 6 (jump stuff happens after gravity in my code)

if the jump button is released on frame 1, first gravity happens (vsp = 5) and then the speed is cut in half (vsp = 2) and we get
frame 1: vsp = 2, y = 8
frame 2: vsp = 1, y = 9
total jump height = 9

but if the jump button is released on frame 2:
frame 1: vsp = 5, y = 11
frame 2: vsp = (4 div 2) = 2, y = 13
frame 3: vsp = 1, y = 14
total jump height = 14

suppose on frame 2, we recalculate vsp and y to match the first scenario. then first of all, vsp is cut from 5 to 1, which is a factor of 5 rather than 2 or 2.5, so the jump arc might look a bit less natural. but the real problem is that we have to drop from y = 11 to y = 9, so theres a weird 2 pixel backwards jump in position which will probably be noticeable..... so i think in general you cant do the recalculating thing without ruining the jump arc

sorry i mostly wrote this for myself to collect my thoughts but maybe its interesting
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 09, 2017, 03:49:46 AM
something i found out is that if i lower the jump height by 3 pixels, then the game is beatable with 6-frame key release delay rather than 5-frame..... a few jumps are slightly harder with the lower height but others are easier..... im really unsure if i should change the jump height or not
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on October 09, 2017, 09:45:55 AM
what about a key that can optionally be set to input a 1-frame jump?
kinda goes against having to master a single simple jump key that offers a lot of control though. and whether or not you'd need bindable keys for 2-frame, 3-frame inputs etc also for accessibility...
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 09, 2017, 02:38:53 PM
i thought about that too..... it would be nice but it seems kinda overly complicated to me to have two jump buttons, especially since the way i do key config doesnt really support "optional" keys so everyone would have to set it.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 09, 2017, 09:14:19 PM
i ended up implementing the shorthop button.... you can even customize the shorthop height.... :honeydew:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 12, 2017, 03:18:07 AM
in the wake of cute jump i wanted to make a more accessible hard platformer but all of my irl playtesters so far have found the training course overwhelming and struggled a lot with it. i feel like im just making a game with no audience again (except for vg)

i dont know how you even make easy platforming levels without them just being boring..... like 4 example
(https://i.imgur.com/6q5xRTR.png)
this jump from "climber" is pretty tough because you have to jump and curve over the circled spike with the right timing, so that you can double jump up to the block at the peak of your first jump. i could make it easier by removing the circled spike but then its completely boring..... you just hold left and stop at the right place
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 12, 2017, 03:21:57 AM
wait i just actually did that jump instead of writing about it from memory and my description of how it works is completely wrong. lol well its still much more interesting with the circled spike so the point stands
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on October 12, 2017, 03:45:54 AM
I think the super-general answer is "make movement fun"? Having technical variable jumping puzzles can be cool, but that alone is probably not that appealing to more casual players. I tend to picture easy platforming levels as having large open spaces, rather than being densely-packed with complicated jumps. Which is of course a bit tricky if you're doing single-screen levels.

Writing that made me realize Dustforce could be a pretty good reference; it has big sections where you get to slide and jump long distances and feel cool, while its hardest stages are packed with technical jumps.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 12, 2017, 04:18:40 AM
yeha i guess thats true.... i guess thats why super meat boy is popular too since meat man is really fast & can do cool wall jumps..... i dont really like that sort of fast inertial movement (e.g. j3, flail) as much as slower & more controllable movement (j2, aiwanas) or fast but very precise movement (j1, dim) so i made this game slow.....

this game doesnt really have cool movement at all..... i tried to make the movement feel very nice and easy to control but its not "cool", its just walks and jumps......

i guess the coolest thing is doing long jump chains with mini stars but my plan was to slowly build up to that instead of introducing it from the start...... maybe thats a bad idea & i should just make the whole game focus on mini stars and other jump-chaining mechanics (currently most of that stuff is set to show up in the latter half of normal course & all throughout expert course)

or maybe ill give up & just make a bunch of cool super-technical jumping levels..... thats all im really good at....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on October 12, 2017, 12:02:07 PM
Do you know any people that play aiwanas? Feels like people who enjoy needle games would enjoy jump3

A few ideas for easier levels or accessibility:
-  Make some jumps a lil more forgiving by removing death as a conqequence? Like, keep that spike jump example below, but if they miss the double jump they probably fall onto safe ground? eg. this jump:
(https://i.imgur.com/zhIVXOh.png)
feels less like failing, and they can resume from where they've fallen from (getting more practice at the intermediate jumps) or just reload if they dropped a checkpoint closer.

- Flowers bloom wherever you hit a spike and you get to see a nice flowery meadow build up
- A light movement trail could feel good (the double jump effect is also v nice and pleasant btw)
- Get your testers to put on some of their fave tunes

---

Kinda tangentially related but i get the thing with easy levels=boring levels. A lot of rhythm games kinda feel the same way where easy difficulties have so few notes that you can't really get in the groove of the song. When you start increasing difficulty the number of notes increases and you start actually playing along to the song! But also mechanical complexity usually increases too at the same time. I've had a few friends play rhythm games with me and find it difficult to find the sweet spot between "this isn't boring" and "there's far too much going on at once". Kinda like, wanting to hit every note of a tune without having to play guitar hero with all five buttons sorta thing.

Stephen's sausage roll is a decent example of a game that does intro levels well imo. Rather than having simple boring 'you can't mess this up' levels to teach you mechanics, it just sets up a bunch of extremely tight, short puzzles at the start of the game that often feel impossible until you get a new insight into the mechanics, usually through experimentation. Compared to something like DROD which just loves to open with the dull non-puzzle of "swing your sword repeatedly to kill some roaches" or puzzles that veer more towards tedious than interesting.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on October 12, 2017, 03:49:33 PM
i was reading an interesting breakdown of super mario world about how mario games achieve "fun while not too hard" (although marios are kinda easy still), and it basically works because mario is actually not just a platformer, but it's a fusion platformer-action game. there are levels focused on technical jumping, etc. but there are also levels more "action"-focused that deal more with fighting / dodging enemies.

a game with only one major mechanic cant do much other than linearly scale the difficulty, which is okay for arcade-type games, but in a long-form game, players either get fatigued, or adapt so it becomes monotonous. the idea with a fusion game is that the levels will constantly switch back and forth between focusing on the two different mechanics. this means that levels can be "challenging" even if they aren't technically becoming harder, because "switching gears" so to speak is difficult in and of itself. but the players will get greater senses of accomplishment / overcoming because when they do switch gears they'll be able to adapt to harder things a lot faster, because they technically already have most of those skills. basically you have two different difficulty curves which can go up and down and which interlock with each other which makes the game progression more interesting.

even in the context of a pure platformer, like jumper 2 has a good variety of different kinds of jumps (double jumpnig, wall-jumping, skid-jumping, etc). and there's enough variety where rarely do 2 levels in a sector feel overly similar to each other in terms of what they are testing out. meatboy has a lot of jumping hard stuff, but also a lot of avoidance / pathing hard stuff (moving blades, dodging rockets, etc). cuphead has shooting and jumping.

anyway idk if i explained that right and also if it's applicable to your game, cuz yeah you would probs just have to add a bunch of stuff. but yeha i think that's one way games can be somewhat "easier" / not ultra-technical, but still be interesting..... well i just read about it though *npc shrug*
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on October 12, 2017, 03:51:28 PM
speaking of indie game design, whenever i look at other peeps projects i get sad because they have such cute art styles, but i feel like i have a hard time coming up with my own that doesnt feel derivative / corny
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on October 12, 2017, 04:48:46 PM
Good psot, duck
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 12, 2017, 05:20:24 PM
lots of good psots in this thread..... thanx everyone....

im currently trying to design some "easy but fun" levs....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: LOC on October 14, 2017, 05:04:12 AM
i adoured it! very groovy challenge, made my fingers so mushy by the end they looked like this :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot:!!!!! i wanna drop of one of the gameboys off at the cutey forums, its called "The Glitchtastic Leafboi," but i dunno where to drop him off... :dancedog: oh wellers
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 14, 2017, 05:43:55 AM
thanx :apple: you can drop your boy off wherever u want its ok
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 15, 2017, 08:06:52 AM
heres the new shit..... love-game.net/jump3/005/ (http://love-game.net/jump3/005/)

its a 15 levels demo..... the first 10 levels constitute the new "training course"..... the idea is for the game to start significantly easier but introduce fun new mechanics much faster.....

the last 5 levels i dont really know about, theyre sort of an attempt to bridge the gap between the training levels and actually hard levels but i dont really know how to do that

you can also open level select with ctrl+L, theres a couple of additional old-style levels i made before changing directions
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on October 15, 2017, 09:55:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/v9S2OOX.png)

Child’s play…

Good intro levels and cool gimmicks, though! Not sure if it leads straight into the other level groups, but it feels like a good start to an approachable difficulty curve.

The other levels are significantly less Child. Not sure if you need stats for those, but...

Launchers: 8 deaths, 72s
Fall And Bounce: 23 deaths, 250s
Mushroom Halls: 89 deaths, 591s
Triple Jumper: 80 deaths, 584s (with checkpoint in midde-right-ish pit between spikes)
Winding Path: 54 deaths, 412s (with checkpoint in top-left)
Mini Stars: 14 deaths, 95s
Spikey Halls X: 147 deaths, 562s (with checkpoint after bottom row)

The shorthop is sort of hard to get used to, and it seemed pretty essential for Spikey Halls X. The fact that it basically has its own levels of jump makes it complicated to keep track of, so I just planned around doing "full height" shorthops. I feel like it'd be more useful to the player being non-variable as was suggested.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 15, 2017, 10:54:49 AM
tbh i didnt really do any testing with the shorthop button since i can do shorthops without it.... i imagine having two jump buttons makes the platforming more complicated and memorizey..... i guess i should try it out & see if a constant jump height feels better (it seems weird to have one jump variable and one constant though....)

the shorthop shouldnt be necessary for anything with your keyboard tho, its only strictly needed if you cannot do 5-frame inputs or less (but certainly some levels are harder if you are right at the 4-5 frame threshold).... spikey halls x is a hard lev but u should be able to do it just fine with the regular jump key if you can do 2 or 3-frame inputs

not sure how much balancing i want to do around the shorthop button since its kinda just there to make the game actually possible if you have a slow keyboard or slow fingers.... i would rather people play the game without it if possible
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on October 15, 2017, 10:43:37 PM
V A R I A B L E S H O R T H O P P I N G
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 18, 2017, 01:41:28 AM
today someone had a huge amount of trouble with the level "crystals" (100+ deaths) because they kept trying to do blue route instead of red route.....
(https://i.imgur.com/TsPfbqO.png)
by contrast vg beat that level with 1 death so she must have figured it out really quickly.....  i think there are some things about double jump refreshers that are easy or obvious if you have experience with them but are mysterious to newcomers......

two testers who described themselves as "bad at platformers" had trouble just maximizing their height when doing multiple midair jumps..... the trick is to hold the jump button until you reach the peak of your jump, release it, very quickly press and hold it again, and repeat. this seemed like a trivial thing to me but its actually a skill that takes time to develop.... when you mix the hold/release jump timing thing with left and right movement it gets even more difficult for beginners

i wonder if i need to make an even easier set of intro levels just to teach people how to properly chain jumps together for maximum height and distance..... its the main mechanic of the game after all but i dont want to completely bore people who are good @ jump's
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on October 18, 2017, 02:12:15 AM
If they're good at jumps they'd probably beat those levels really quickly.

But I mean, I've seen people get stuck on the first level of Jumper 2 because they didn't understand skid jumping.  Ya gotta teach them the mechanic, but it's probably not possible to make it accessible to everyone.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on October 20, 2017, 07:53:24 PM
hey who made that biss game frm the news

also tbh the first couple of times i dealt with those red / yellow things from an untitlted they were super hard + unituitive.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on October 21, 2017, 02:06:29 PM
yuppppp! lol i remember those being super tricky when i first played too
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on October 21, 2017, 11:13:57 PM
i played thru cute jump again..... barely missed sub 2 hours....
(https://i.imgur.com/uap0Q9v.png)
im not even going to do the fuckening postgame, its impossible
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 18, 2018, 02:14:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/JXF66CF.png)
lol i feel like im getting too old for this kind of game..... and im supposed to be making one....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on January 18, 2018, 02:19:14 AM
i wanna see sylvie take on a marios -find all the cool shit in weird ways-...... i dont think im patient enough for hard games....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 18, 2018, 02:20:58 AM
that would b cool maybe.... not sure what kind of game i should make..... lately ive been daydreaming about Cactus Block X which mixes that classic cactus block gameplay with exploration + cute fashions.... i think i can handle making a dumb boring platformer world to explore in but the fashion part would be a lot of tedious graphics + ui work

Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on January 18, 2018, 02:27:04 AM
have unprecedented sylvie art just use real pics of clothes u think are cute
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 18, 2018, 04:38:37 AM
i commented out something from my movement code that im like, 100% certain is unreachable code, like i could easily prove that it will never execute, but im still scared removing it will subtly fuck something up....

touching movement/collision code after you write it is scary.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 18, 2018, 04:42:27 AM
whoops lol im wrong and maybe it can execute under very specific circumstances.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 18, 2018, 04:46:59 AM
i dont really know what the code does though.....

anyways im trying seriously to implement Moving Platforms for basically the first time....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 18, 2018, 04:53:15 AM
its so hard to wrap my head around..... the platform has to move but then it has to move the character with it and sometimes the character cant move but the platform can and other times the character might block the platform from moving..... and what if the platform is moving in a clockwise circular motion and the platform has a conveyor belt on it thats scrolling to the left and the character is on the platform pushing the bottom crate from a stack of crates to the right
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on January 18, 2018, 04:54:55 AM
matt made a good post on this once let me dig it up....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on January 18, 2018, 04:56:36 AM
https://mattmakesgames.tumblr.com/post/127890619821/towerfall-physics

idk if it will be of use to you but "hear" it is!!!
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 18, 2018, 05:06:41 AM
hmm thats a cool post..... thanks matt thorson.....

i keep thinking about dumb assed shit that will never happen like what if a moving platform pushes you into a pushable object creating a "push chain"....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on January 18, 2018, 05:13:25 AM
hmmmm

(https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/H3rJaPi.png)
not a problem. be sure the player pushes the pushable by x since there is free space

(https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/H3rJebn.png)
problem. make sure the player is aware there is not x free space beyond the pushable
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 18, 2018, 05:24:08 AM
happy bird day to all vgpersons...... :honeydew:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 18, 2018, 05:49:25 AM
i give up forever..... there will never be a platform that moves in my games.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on January 18, 2018, 06:01:18 AM
shux!!!!! happy bird vg!!!
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 19, 2018, 08:27:43 AM
happy day to all hubols as well.....  :watermelon:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on January 19, 2018, 05:34:07 PM
ty!!! :dancedog:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 22, 2018, 02:37:48 AM
hey vg what do you think of unity compared to games maker for making 2d games..... or anyone else who has used both.....

i attended a unity tutorial today & tried it out for the first time, but we just made this silly game where you fly a ufo around a square so i didnt really get much of a feel for what serious use is like.....

the main thing that stuck out to me is that the "scene editor" seems much more cumbersome for building levels than the gm room editor.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on January 22, 2018, 04:00:34 AM
Unity can be really dumb, especially with 2D. I think newer versions might have better 2D stuff, but it's originally made for 3D, so there are a fair bit of weird things resulting from that. And some things are dumb either way. I had to build a lot of my own framework to do things that make sense to me.

- The scene editor isn't great for level design, no. It doesn't have a thing to automatically snap objects to grid, though you can hold Ctrl to drag things in increments of your a customizable grid size. In general, it's not set up for sticking to integer positions unless you take control of that yourself; there are "world units" that aren't necessarily pixels, and the camera needs to be set up properly too to get square pixels.

- There are "FixedUpdate" and "Update" methods, with the former calling at fixed time intervals (i.e. 60 FPS if you set the time interval to 0.01666~ seconds), but the latter calling at inconsistent intervals, so you have to use the time delta in all calculations to use that one. (I use FixedUpdate almost exclusively, but it means you get slowdown rather than frame skipping.)

- Drawing arbitrary things on screen isn't really in there natively, so I had to make functions that can draw shapes and text all using GUI.DrawTexture (like, a line or solid rectangle can be drawn as a stretched 1-pixel texture). I think what it wants you to do is build most GUI things visually in the editor?? Also, objects' DrawGUI methods can draw on different GUI layers, but the GUI is always above the objects, and can't have post-processing shader effects applied to it (which allow things like sepia tone or the fuzzy effects from Libretta).

- Getting references to resources or object "prefabs" (to create instances from) requires either manually dragging it onto a public variable in the object that needs it (awful, horrible), or putting it in the Resources folder, from which you can arbitrarily load anything (way easier). The latter is a discouraged practice according to the manual, because it uses a search tree, so there's a more-than-linear load time increase at game start the more files there are. It's still what I use anyway.

- There are default physics, but primarily because of the integer position issue, I found it better to disable all of it and build my own. Basically all I use from it is the Collision Box, to define object hitboxes. One feature that is actually useful: you can set "object layers," and restrict collision checks to a layer or set or layers. ...Although I think you could more or less do this in GM too, just less conveniently.

- You normally can't play arbitrary music/sounds?? I think you're "expected" to give every object that could play sounds "audio player" components, one for every sound they could use. I instead made music and sound player objects that have a few of those "audio players" that just swap out the audio clips.

So yeah, there's a lot of garbage to worry about (even if some of it may be a result of expectations from GM), though it's generally been fine once I got past all of it. The few times I've looked at GM Studio, it seemed to have its own fair share of awkwardness, so I dunno which is really better.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 22, 2018, 04:24:40 AM
thanx for the very detailed post..... :watermelon:

sounds like if i ever wanted to switch to unity it would be a pain..... im pretty happy with gm but i was curious what its like..... unity & unreal seem to be the hot new shit these days now that gm costs $900 or whatever

maybe im misinterpreting but it seems like you are planning to use unity for future projects rather than gm.... what was your reason for switching? gm studio definitely has some weird quirks but a lot of them were also in gm8 and earlier so i dont think it would take you too long to get used to....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on January 22, 2018, 04:37:20 AM
Initially, I was just kind of fed up with GM's performance and quirks and wanted to try something new. It's hard to say why exactly I still feel like sticking with Unity now... I think it is a bit more comfortable and reliable than GM after I built myself a foundation. Also, hell if I'm moving Loverinth over to another engine at this point.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on January 22, 2018, 07:46:12 AM
a lot of the things vg detailed in her post are why i dont think i will be using unity ever: i think i am very exhausted of having to learn hacks to work with other people's design decisions. if i develop for switch i want to make a bare-bones game engine in c++ like the java one we've used for sbw2....

did gamer make studio nusty 2 add any useful features yet? i saw that terrible flowchart programming bs they had that makes no sense for an imperative language. i wonder how many more decades before they hack in the ability to name arguments in scripts
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: cati on January 22, 2018, 12:24:46 PM
ive been playing around with the haxeflixel library lately for 2d stuff, using a program called tiled for level design, although i remember ogmo editor being good too when i used it a few years back. i've not made anything super complicated, but i'm happy with what it lets me do, and what i've seen other people do with it, but i never used gamemaker so i'm not sure how it compares to working with that.

ive used unity a bit too, but only for 3d stuff and yeah, it seems like kind of a mess to do anything through the scene editor.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 23, 2018, 03:27:27 AM
i havent tried gm studio 2 lol im not paying for that..... maybe i will check out the free trial sometime.... the room editor might be less janky than the gms 1.4 one but they also took out some stuff i think.... i think you cant set room backgrounds anymore or something and have to use tiles for everything?? the tile system is improved a lot obviously but taht still sounds weird

ive heard of tiled before.... i think some people use that with unity too.... one thing i like about gm tho is i dont need to switch programs for anything other than music/sound
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on January 23, 2018, 05:07:08 AM
thats probably nice but i dont think the built in image editors work for my great aesthetic anymore... but when i actually used gm the gm sprite editor was all i ever used. nowadays theres a nice paint.net spritesheet extension that does the trick for our engine

i think if you really cared about the classiq gm backgrounds you could easily build your own object that emulates that (object with max depth). funny that they would remove that since it seems pretty trivial to keep lol
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 28, 2018, 04:23:08 PM
made a lil PuzzlePlat this weekend.... love-game.net/electrocat/ (http://love-game.net/electrocat/)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on January 28, 2018, 04:52:56 PM
I dreamt I made a platformer game last night.  No link because it doesn't exist.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on January 28, 2018, 05:48:40 PM
chu I remember you tried my shitty game when I was learning how to GameMaker, and commented something like "I want to make a block pushing game where you glitch inside blocks to move them".

IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 28, 2018, 06:06:24 PM
lol i vaguely remember that.... the dream is finally real
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on January 28, 2018, 06:40:25 PM
Got 'em all.  Level 5 took some thinking.

(https://i.imgur.com/jAbPjrk.png)

Nice game!
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 28, 2018, 06:43:52 PM
nice!! thanx for playing!!  :honeydew:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on January 28, 2018, 07:38:22 PM
pretty cute.... i've only gotten through the tutorials so far
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 28, 2018, 09:48:46 PM
i love getting comments on my grames from people.... its more addicting than drug's
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 28, 2018, 10:58:11 PM
i also enjoy getting "likes" on my twitter posts.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on January 29, 2018, 06:58:02 AM
yeha i cant wait to release bogus and get 6 good comments
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 29, 2018, 08:03:12 AM
lol yeah thats what sucks about big games.... that time spent to comment ratio
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on January 31, 2018, 12:10:10 PM
electrocat is v cute! still gotta do level 4 & 7. level 5 took me a while, [sp]but once i realised i was trying to make a similar arrangement of blocks to puzzle 3 to transport the stairs along, it started clicking into place[/sp].

i'm always really impressed at how infinitely expandable the block pusher genre seems to be
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on January 31, 2018, 10:32:56 PM
thanx jůner!! yeha theres a lot ass of shit you can do with the concept of pushing blocks around.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 02, 2018, 05:26:06 AM
im reading about how to implement 2d platformers in unity out of curiosity about how it works.....

seems like most people agree that using the built in physics doesnt work well, & u have to write your own shit just like in gm..... its really too bad making platformers isnt more accessible to beginners

does unity have an equivalent of place_free/place_meeting? if not is it easy to implement? (for rectangle hitboxes at least, im assuming "precise collisions" like in gm would be hard)

a lot of tutorials seem to recommend "raycasting" for collision (e.g. http://overdevelop.blogspot.ca/2013/12/2d-platformer-collision-detection-in.html) and it seems way more awkward and error-prone than checking if two rectangles overlap....

ive never written a "check if two rectangles overlap" function tho because game maker does it for you..... maybe its actually tricky

i guess another thing is that if u restrict yourself to rectangle hitboxes, it would be tricky to implement slopes..... i wonder if it would be easier to just implement gm-style precise collisions, or keep slope hitboxes rectangular and do some wacky shit to position the character correctly

i dont actually know how precise collision detection works, i think u like construct bit arrays out of the sprites or something and compare them somehow? im glad gm has that shit built in lol
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on February 02, 2018, 06:28:27 AM
I did use raycasts at first, and they're used for most collision in ATGH, but they were weird and a bit unreliable (sometimes it would be one pixel off in detecting walls, so I had it to make it check if it had entered a wall and undo if so). And to get stuff like "is there something inside this door?" working well, I ended up using a separate method that would check for collision boxes in a rectangular area.

I've since switched over to using said rectangle check method (which uses Physics2D.OverlapAreaAll) for everything. Like I said in my earlier post, you can just set up a Collision Box for an object to define its hitbox, and Physics2D methods can detect those colliders. Making place_free isn't too hard - just make a function that generates the appropriate Rect for what area you're checking exactly (a ground-checking place_free would be a wide, thin Rect underneath the character), then uses OverlapAreaAll to return all Collider2Ds in that Rect, and if there are none, that area is free. That approach can be used to check any individual pixel for colliders if you want.

And I think you can technically make Unity 2D colliders be any shape you want? I haven't done much with that - I have slopes in Loverinth, but I don't actually remember how I made their colliders. I think I was able to write some code that generated the pixel-precise shape I wanted. Which I imagine is sort of what Game Maker does to create precise colliders too.

Nah, checking whether rectangles overlap is super easy; you just have to compare their coordinates. If a rectangle is fully to the left/right or above/below the other rectangle, they're not overlapping - otherwise, they are.

I think if you had a character with a non-rectangular hitbox moving around, you would just have to do a "is the area X pixels ahead free?" check from every "edge" pixel along the relevant side of the collider. That's probably sort of where the idea of raycasts comes from, except Unity's don't seem to work quite pixel-perfectly enough for 2D.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 02, 2018, 06:55:06 AM
hmm i guess maybe you could use "PolygonCollider2D" to do pixel-perfect hitboxes? it seems like would be annoying to set those up if theres no way to automatically generate it from the sprite tho.....

thanx for the effort u put into responding to my random unity question post's...... :honeydew:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 02, 2018, 06:55:36 AM
also happy 150th post.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on February 02, 2018, 07:02:34 AM
Yeah, I think that's what I used. And in theory, since you can read the pixels from textures, you could do that and have an algorithm that generates a collider from a sprite... I just didn't bother with all that since the slopes have a simple shape.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 02, 2018, 11:07:57 PM
more unity questions..... im thinking of giveing a talk at my local "grames dev club" about movement & collision handling in 2d games (without using built-in physics) but everyone uses unity so i wanna understand the nuancés of unity

the docs seem to say (e.g. here (https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/Collider2D.IsTouching.html)) that when you move a collider, the move doesnt actually happen until the next physics update (FixedUpdate?). so basically if i ran this psuedocode in a FixedUpdate with a 16x16 box collider at (0,0), it would detect the collider:
Code: [Select]
MoveColliderTo(32,32);
if OverlapAreaAll((0,0),(16,16)) {
   Print("detected collider");
}
(also would OverlapAreaAll((0,0),(16,16)) check a 16x16 area or a 17x17 area?)

anyways im wondering how you would do moving platforms with that kind of behaviour..... my barely functional moving platform code definitely relies a lot on the assumption that when you move a platform, its collision box will actually move in the same step, and not one step later..... it seems like it would be really hard to avoid stuff getting stuck

did you have to do anything weird to get the golems and stuff in atgh to work?
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on February 03, 2018, 03:55:07 AM
I think there are a few edge cases in ATGH that result from that issue (like in the box push method, I check for "Box or girl fell into path of pushing" after moving the box), but it wasn't a fundamental problem for me. Presumably it would be worse when using Update() instead of FixedUpdate(), since you could have several frames of out-of-date collider positions. I guess that's the sort of thing you could avoid by using pure Rects or something instead of Collider2Ds, but, yeah.

Pretty sure since 0 to 16 is 17 pixels, it's a 17x17 area. Though I think Collider2D bounds may be shifted a pixel right and down or something? Since my code does this: (Note that "rect" is created from collider2D.bounds.min and collider2D.bounds.size)

Code: [Select]
collidersFound = Physics2D.OverlapAreaAll(new Vector2(rect.xMin + 1, rect.yMin + 1), new Vector2(rect.xMax - 1, rect.yMax - 1), layers);
You're misremembering - Golems don't actually move you when you stand on them. I explicitly avoided platforms that moved on their own in ATGH because it would get awkward with the grid-based nature of it. What it does have is carrying Brooke (or bombs) on boxes. In all the cases where boxes move (being pushed, flying through the air, being carried and thus aligning with Asha), the box's old position is saved before it moves. After moving, it checks if Brooke (or a bomb) is above it*, and if so, calls brooke/bomb.getCarriedByBox(xDiff, yDiff). This simply attempts to move them that much one axis at a time, stopping at walls.

* To be specific, bombs are checked for in the push case only (they won't ride on thrown or carried boxes - even getting a bomb on top of a carried box is an edge case I didn't consider until just now I guess), and girls are only checked for in the non-push cases (Brooke can ride on carried and thrown boxes, but boxes are "pushed out from under her"). Just because the different cases are meant to work differently by design.

The way I keep you from pushing Brooke up into ceilings with carried boxes is sort of a cheat that won't work for every game. I basically directly set the position of carried boxes to be above Asha at all times, and then just kept clipping situations from happening at all. If Asha is carrying a box, she simply can't jump unless there's room above the box. And if that carried box is carrying Brooke, Asha can't jump unless Brooke has room to jump. And she can't walk right/left if the carried box has room.

(Yeah, I know you can carry a box and jump up into a falling Golem and it somehow works out okay, but I don't think I coded anything specific to make it work that way... It's a mystery.)

So, to address it more legitimately... If you make getCarriedByBox() return what direction(s) Brooke encountered a wall in, you should be able to use that info to be like "oh, this carrier object is pushing the other object into a wall, let's move it back." Or actually, maybe more useful would be to return a Vector2 telling the carrier how much it needs to "step back," based on the xDiff/yDiff passed to it and the distance the object was actually able to move.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 03, 2018, 04:21:37 AM
oh i know golems dont move you, i was wondering how you handle basic situations like this involving moving solids:
- asha and golem are standing beside each other, with a 2 pixel gap between their colliders
- asha moves 2 pixels right
- golem moves 1 pixel left
- next frame unity updates the collider positions, and they are inside each other now

in gm there wouldnt be a problem because the "golem moves" step would fail, but if im understanding things correctly, it wouldnt fail in unity....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 03, 2018, 04:35:51 AM
i guess its more than just golems and other enemys, this kind of thing would arise if (e.g.) in 2 player mode asha is carrying a crate and moving right, and brooke is moving left and jumps into the crate

do you have some code that pushes you out of solid objects if you get stuck in them? that would fix the problem i think, but i normally use a collision system that just tries to avoid getting stuck and does nothing if you get stuck
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on February 03, 2018, 04:59:59 AM
Well, the thing is, I never really noticed or was aware of any kind of "update delay," and am not entirely sure when that situation occurs, and suspect it may not at all the way I'm doing things. I said that one case was a result of it, but come to think of it, I think it's just caused by "thing getting in box's path" falling via its FixedUpdate() before the girl's FixedUpdate() runs (in which the box's push() function is called). Meaning the only issue is the standard "which FixedUpdate() runs first" - the colliders will always be properly aligned with the objects when their positions change.

Ultimately, it may be as simple as "if you're only using FixedUpdate to move stuff, you're fine, the colliders will be right." So as usual, Unity's docs just make things more confusing? It could even just mean "if you're using physics to move your objects (that is, setting their velocity instead of directly changing positions), they won't move until physics happen," which is like... obvious.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 03, 2018, 05:15:22 AM
ok thats good to know :honeydew: if i go through with giving a talk about this stuff ill probably have to actually test out my codez in unity first....

i noticed that the Collider2D.IsTouching docs have the warning about colliders still being registered as "touching" if you move one out of the way, but the Collider2D.OverlapCollider docs (and the docs for all the Physics2D overlap methods) dont mention that issue..... i thought it was just the docs not accounting for every edge case of every function, but maybe checking if colliders "overlap" is actually different from checking if they are "touching" for some reason....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on February 03, 2018, 06:33:47 AM
Good luck if you give the talk.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 03, 2018, 07:19:09 AM
thanx :honeydew:

i have another question for vg..... do you use "static colliders" or "kinematic rigidbody colliders" for your moveable hitboxes? the docs (https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/CollidersOverview.html) say that repositioning static colliders is very inefficient & can cause glitches, so kinematic rigidbody colliders sound like they would be better, but i dont think you ever mentioned using rigidbody stuff in your games....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on February 03, 2018, 07:48:46 AM
Yeah, no Rigidbody. I feel like I had that at first, but it just resulted in "automatic" physics that I didn't want. But it does sound like even if you're just using it for colliders, it regenerates the collision map every time you move a "static" collider, and that can add up... So maybe we should both look into that.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 03, 2018, 08:36:23 AM
this platformer controller someone made (https://github.com/prime31/CharacterController2D) has a kinematic rigidbody on the character which does not seem to actually be used in the code anywhere, so maybe it really is faster to just have a useless rigidbody on your objects with moving colliders.....

i tried to generate hundreds of player objects to test the speed difference between no rigidbody/kinematic rigidbody but it just made unity crash
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 03, 2018, 12:42:17 PM
unity good me bad
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 06, 2018, 11:39:21 PM
love-game.net/fluffbattle (http://love-game.net/fluffbattle)

this runs slow in chrome but fast in firefox for me? can anyone else test it?
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on February 07, 2018, 12:12:54 AM
same here, fast in firefox and slow in chrome...
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on February 07, 2018, 12:16:15 AM
had a weird thing when trying to rebind controls the other day in the previous version, trying to rebind "move left" to the left arrow but that kept undoing one step of assignment instead. i guess cause the left arrow was assigned to reset or something?

but it looks like you've changed the button assignment stuff for multiplayer anyway so this might not even be an issue any more  :orange:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 07, 2018, 03:51:24 AM
oh apparently i fucked up and option/button config files from different games on my site can overwrite each other..... turns out im supposed to generate a unique "Game Identifier" for each game to prevent this.... normally this is done automatically on project creation but for electrocat/fluff battle (and maybe other games?) i started with some base code instead of creating a new project, so they have the same id..... lol
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 07, 2018, 03:54:08 AM
anyways i think i fixed the speed issue in chrome so i just have to fix this id thing now.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 07, 2018, 04:07:13 AM
think everything is work now......... :honeydew:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on February 07, 2018, 04:14:29 AM
not related to the controls - but idk if im just bad but this cpu is hard af to beat. he 5-0'd me a lot. (he's also runback from 4-1)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 07, 2018, 04:22:20 AM
yeha the cpu is pretty tricky, ive beaten it numerous times during testing but i definitely cant do it consistently...... theres usually a way to exploit simple ai like this but i havent found one.... the key to fluff battle is to stay on top of your opponent as much as possible but its hard because the cpu moves so erratically and jumps constantly

also winning against a large group of cpus seems pretty much impossible, they just climb all over each other and hog all the points
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on February 07, 2018, 03:40:13 PM
yeah the cpu is just way better at landing on my head than i am.

i think what they're also a lot better at is being able to take another jump after landing on your head. i think it'd be nice if the timing on that was a bit more forgiving. i whiff the jump a lot.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 07, 2018, 06:34:57 PM
hmm right now you can only jump if there is a solid object directly below you..... i could make it so you can still jump one frame after leaving ground (i used to be firmly opposed to stuff like that but i implemented it in jump3 and its actually fine....)

i could also give the cpu a cooldown timer on jumps so it cant just jump instantly every time it touches ground.....

maybe ill do that tonite or tomorow nite......
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 11, 2018, 11:17:43 PM
just released a hard core time trial racing game..... for the gamers love-game.net/kittyracing/ (http://love-game.net/kittyracing/)

i also made an art game a few days ago..... its about my feelings and stuff love-game.net/flower/ (http://love-game.net/flower/)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 12, 2018, 01:06:32 AM
god i love ur games........................
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 12, 2018, 01:10:09 AM
wow thanks gamer..... what do you love about em
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 12, 2018, 02:04:20 AM
i like that you just have lil nicely-executed concepts and a nice aesthetic

when i make things nowadays i can never keep my concepts small, everything gets out of control

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 12, 2018, 03:35:05 AM
thanx.... you have a nice aesth too its very wild & unique & cute......

the new thing that im trying to do is "the sylvie bedtime game jam"...... how it works is u start making a game in the afternoon or evening, and try to finish it before your bedtime.....

i like it because its not a big rush like kotm but its also not a weekend-long ordeal like ludum dare...... its a very relaxed game making experience..... u should try it make some cute small games pump em out
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 12, 2018, 04:53:43 AM
aw thanks :-) i think when bogus is done i should try and make smallthings again..... or release some kind of funny "hubol bedtime jam" launcher that you can pull in the latest and gr8est hubol jam games as i make em... that would be funny
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 12, 2018, 04:59:17 AM
it would basically just be bogus but updated incrementally so people dont think im dead for five years, but i can imagine it with a funny tagging system or something

"Nusty parade" by hubol
tagged as:
NSFWX
trashX
epic platformer-
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 12, 2018, 05:15:13 AM
how close is that bingus to being done? are u at the point yet where u have all the minigrames planned & just need to make em, or are u still comin up with new stuff......
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 12, 2018, 05:26:45 AM
with bingus nothing is ever planned, it just happens lol. usually one of us has a terrible idea and then we keep making it more complicated. im planning on starting one of the final bosses next! then what needs to happen is the world map (which i want to be like a playground... so that could b complicated). i would say we are 80% done. there is also the 20 minute press conference that i've been working on that's almost done too lol
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 12, 2018, 05:51:32 AM
cool keep up the good work gamer..... making big games like bogo seems hard
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on February 12, 2018, 06:52:10 AM
Short Games Are Fake Actually

I'm extremely unsuited to making games that short... The sorts of gameplay ideas I have are usually ones I want to fully flesh out. More importantly, I'm all about Narrative Experiences now, which doesn't necessarily mean it can't be short, but I think it's way harder for me to have a good idea for a short story. Partly because in the same way, whenever I make characters now, I really want to fully explore them?? It's kind of legitimately a reason why I'd have a hard time making a Nakko or Combo Cutie sequel to my satisfaction, because those characters are fundamentally silly.

I am making relatively smaller games while I try to figure out Loverinth (which itself is often a matter of scope-narrowing), like All To Get Her and spoilers I'm working on a short-ish RPG now. But there's just nothing I'd want to throw together in a day and call done.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 12, 2018, 07:56:09 AM
@sylvie thanks :-) id give u a cute but i dont wanna ruin your epic cute's level. i feel like with bogo we have the advantage that its not a completely cohesive experience, mechanically or aesthetically--which makes a lot of aspects of development less tough. however, there is the disadvantage that each minigame has its own systems which incurs some development overhead. sometimes i take a long time for that part because i have a tendency to design things like they are for full-length games...

@vg that mostly makes sense to me. i dont really understand why you'd have a hard time exploring fundamentally silly characters though--you can explore them in basically any direction!!!!
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on February 12, 2018, 08:09:14 AM
I dunno, it's like, Combo Cutie has a world and characters where everyone's generally irreverent, and fixated on combos and other game-y stuff, and it's generally built on jokes like people being either Hardcores or Casuals (I could change that stuff, but like, it's good) - yet at the same time, these days, I'd probably want to somehow make a cool story with real characters out of that if I made a full-length game for them. That's a discrepancy I don't know if I could ever figure out a solution to, and probably will never try to anyway unless I get a really good idea for the gameplay. (Nakko is a similar deal, just ever-so-slightly more serious thanks to some elements of Bazookie.)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 12, 2018, 10:25:37 AM
making a satisfying narrative for a one day game is probably rly hard.... i dont know anything about narraratives tho so i cant rly offer suggests....

shortgames i find are good for generating new gameplay ideas you would normally never come up with.... then if theyre good you can explore them more thoroughly later (4 example i want to make a big cactus block game someday)

i wonder if shortgames are also good for generating unusual narrative & character ideas if u approach them in that way  :honeydew:

it helps to have low standards too lol.... 5 example im pretty satisfied with flower garden even tho its kind of a nothing and i made it in <2 hours at 3 am because i was depressed. its still a cute little experience i think....

the vgperson brand doesnt really seem suited to small trashgames the way the sylvie & hubol ones are..... however i think it would be cute if u tryed making one or two (or 5000....) and just posted them for your cutey zone friends to see....!

i find long term projects kind of grueling.... it  feels nice to get back into making little cute things & sharing them with people  :watermelon:

thats also why i tried to do the thing where i post small playable updates of long term projects on my twitter, but that doesnt work for all games (especially narrative focused ones....) it doesnt really work for the current direction jump3 is going either
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on February 12, 2018, 10:39:30 AM
It might be easier to fit more narrative into a smaller game if the gameplay is designed around repetition.  Like instead of creating a huge game world, you might take a game like Super Hexagon and find ways of integrating characters and story which is explored as you play.

(Don't do that with Super Hexagon though - that game is perfect as-is)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 13, 2018, 12:17:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/cispkzH.png)

hey kitty racers..... ive updated the kitty racing game..... love-game.net/kittyracing (http://love-game.net/kittyracing)

it now has "graphics", and the beloved sylvie options menu is available.....

i made the medal times a bit easier since juner said on twitter that even the bronze one was tuff.....

this version also records legal and illegal times separately (an illegal time is like if you dont collect all the stars)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on February 13, 2018, 02:55:24 PM
im still trying to make a Big Game Alt+0135 - but i think what's been difficult lately is just not really having specific thing that i want to make. like there's all sorts of gameplay elements and story ideas that i thought were cool when i was younger but now im like ehhhhhh. i kind of am just trying to capture a certain tone, but it's hard to get it and still have it be an interesting grame that i would actually want to play.

maybe ill try my hand at a really short gimmick game i think that might be a nice change of pace.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 13, 2018, 03:16:24 PM
yeha i feel like these days its hard for me to come up with BiggGame ideas that arent extremely vague and formless..... i used to have tons of cool game ideas but most of them were way too ambitious to ever be finished..... now that i know how to reign in that ambition its harder to come up with anything interesting lol

i think the most concrete ideas i have are actually just expanded versions of small games ive made (cactus block x, return to cat planet, titled tower game, super resa world....)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 13, 2018, 09:55:29 PM
whens return to cat planet coming out
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 13, 2018, 10:15:33 PM
hopefully for the 10th anniversary (december 13 2019)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 14, 2018, 12:07:08 AM
wow im excited for it
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 12:12:06 AM
yeha i havent actually started working on it yet but its gona be sweet.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on February 14, 2018, 12:16:46 AM
cat planet is 10 years olnd??? ........
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 12:25:42 AM
happy 10 year birthday cat planet........
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 04:04:12 AM
before i forget about it heres a jif i recorded of me getting a 40 second time in kitty racer.....
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
whats everyones best kitty race times? i didnt get much feedback on how hard it is to get good times other than the one thing juner said......
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 14, 2018, 04:15:24 AM
i barely got 52 i think i wanna try to do it some more before i check your jiffy peanut butter
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 04:22:43 AM
go for it gamer..... my jify uses a silly strat but it doesnt actually save a lot of time, i can get like 42 without it
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 04:25:24 AM
actually i can get 40 without the silly strat apparently..... i still feel like its slightly faster tho
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 05:08:03 PM
someone said their best time was 75 seconds..... i think i really underestimated how hard this game is as usual lol

somehow i never get better at judging how difficult my games are for other ppl.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 14, 2018, 05:42:26 PM
75 seconds sounds like theyve missed an important mechanic or somethibg
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 05:44:04 PM
yeha mabey....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 08:26:25 PM
i watched a friend play for the first time & it was very informative..... it seems like beginner kitty racers dont have a good grasp of speed/size management and will stay small for long stretches even when there is lots of space to grow. filling as much space as possible is probably the most important kitty racing technique..... my friend also had seemed to have trouble making small size adjustments & would hold the expand/shrink buttons longer than necessary, often resulting in getting stuck or moving at suboptimal speeds. they did considerably better after i demonstrated how to get a 44-second time

i also see why it hasnt got many comments or much enthusiasm even though i personally think its one of the most funnest games ive made in a while..... if you arent good at it then its just a very awkward experience with slow ass movement and lots of getting stuck on walls..... i guess people just didnt wanna break it to me :(

i think to get other people to enjoy it i would need to have like some super easy tutorial trax, and maybe ai kittys that demonstrate the basics of movement..... but its probably not worth the time to expand the game.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 14, 2018, 08:31:39 PM
something that might help is a clear indication of when you become stuck while growing, like maybe the kittey frowns or meows at you or changes to deeper color
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 14, 2018, 08:32:10 PM
well nevermind because i guess optimally you would grow/shrink while moving so you would be able to tell when youve stuckinated
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 09:01:44 PM
im working on a prototype where you can choose between three types of transmission for your kitty.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 09:43:55 PM
heres the prototype..... let me know what you thinks..... http://love-game.net/kittyracing_proto/
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on February 14, 2018, 09:51:55 PM
How is the auto-expanding supposed to work? Full and semi-auto seem exactly the same to me - only shrinking when I hit walls. The idea sounds good, though.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 09:58:29 PM
oh did i fuck something up? dang i cant fix it for a while bc i just left to do stuff....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on February 14, 2018, 09:59:13 PM
Er, 94 seconds on my first go (manual).  But I think I did four laps instead of three?  Not sure if I had to touch the disco ball each time.

Anyway I would say semi-automatic is the most fun mode.  Shaved about 30 seconds off on try #2.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 10:03:50 PM
vg were you pressing the expand key in full auto mode? the idea is to only use the arrows.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on February 14, 2018, 10:08:59 PM
Nope, it definitely just keeps me at the smallest size if I only press the arrows on Easy.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 10:24:08 PM
yeha i just tested & it does that for me too..... thats very weird because full auto works on windows?? let me see if i can figure this out....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 10:47:26 PM
sigh collision_circle does not work on html5 for some reason..... i think it will work now love-game.net/kittyracing_proto/ (http://love-game.net/kittyracing_proto/)

i feel like semi-auto is too powerful tho...... i got 40 seconds with it fairly easily
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 10:51:55 PM
yeha i just got 39 seconds with semi-auto..... which i actually got on manual yesterday but it took me forever
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 11:25:31 PM
love-game.net/kittyracing_proto/ (http://love-game.net/kittyracing_proto/)

i changed full & semi auto to have a sort of "penalty" for bumping into walls where you shrink a little extra...... i think now its not so easy to get optimal times on those settings, but they are still helpful if u are not used to manual
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on February 14, 2018, 11:30:39 PM
Oh, I was about to say semi-auto actually seemed pretty well-balanced since it shrank you quite a bit whenever you hit a wall, but I guess I played it right after you updated. Seems good.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 14, 2018, 11:43:36 PM
thanx for all the help everyone...... :honeydew:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 14, 2018, 11:57:22 PM
for some reason the automatic behaviors are distracting for me...... do they resize you faster than you can manually?
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 15, 2018, 12:00:22 AM
i dont think so except in the case where you are holding shrink and hit a wall, then i think the two shrinks might overlap......
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 15, 2018, 12:03:47 AM
that makes sense..... i got 45 on manual
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 15, 2018, 12:13:09 AM
wow nice!!! so close to the gold.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 17, 2018, 03:18:41 AM
(http://love-game.net/bedtimefeb1718.png)
the bed time jam is officially hapnnening this weekend...... join the fun @ glorioustrainwrecks.com/node/11004 (http://glorioustrainwrecks.com/node/11004)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 17, 2018, 04:40:54 AM
cute!
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on February 17, 2018, 08:02:27 AM
workin all weekend... might try to make somethin tomorrow evening maybe...
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 17, 2018, 09:10:14 PM
i hope u can!!!
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: cati on February 18, 2018, 12:50:27 AM
ive got an entry coming up...... hit some last minute issues exporting a windows build tho so it might be tomorrow before i can get it out
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 18, 2018, 01:32:52 AM
shit hell its already the weekend
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: cati on February 18, 2018, 02:15:09 AM
ok i figured it out and also solved the problem where the game was like 250mb bigger than it needed to be :rutabaga: gotta say it feels good to start making a game and then proceed to finish making a game

im gonna do a different sort of bedtime jam before i upload it tho (im gonna sleep)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 18, 2018, 02:45:32 AM
nitey nite cait :watermelon:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 18, 2018, 04:42:33 AM
wow sweet im glad the jam got u to make a game  :apple:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: cati on February 18, 2018, 12:14:20 PM
:sonic: :sonic: :sonic:  ok it's live https://www.glorioustrainwrecks.com/node/11007  :sonic: :sonic: :sonic:


                                                        ^ click it
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 18, 2018, 02:22:44 PM
sweet beans..... im very sleepey right now but i will definitely check it out l8r.....  :sonic:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 18, 2018, 04:10:02 PM
quote this tweet to report spam
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 18, 2018, 06:27:54 PM
the spam's are gone.... im still sleepy but i probably need to start on my grame soon
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 18, 2018, 07:05:52 PM
playing click t clown....
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 18, 2018, 07:14:18 PM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
i dont know if i will actually reach the ending but cute game it made me smile :honeydew:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: cati on February 18, 2018, 07:39:10 PM
thanks for the heads up on the shortcut thing and im glad you like it!!!

im not sure how long itll take to [sp]hit 5,000,000[/sp] but i left it for half an hour earlier and the bar hadn't even started filling up.

i kinda wanted to do more clicker style stuff with unlocks and then it started getting late so i just made the end ridiculously hard to reach because it seemed better than it just suddenly stopping, but i might make a version that actually goes somewhere (there is still an ending in the game w/ some new and unique content but it kinda sucked without any proper build up).
wanted to add a few dialogue options and dating sim type stuff too,,,, maybe i might still do that

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


edit: oh theres still an easter egg that kinda hints at the ending fwiw :dancedog:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 18, 2018, 08:54:31 PM
the bar has currently filled up this much:
(https://i.imgur.com/0oMjjg2.png)
i feel like this will take several days at minimum, possibly more than one week. lets see whether it finishes before windows 10 decides to restart my computer to install an update (theres also a possibility the game will crash when i go into sleep/hibernate mode)

also something strange has happened to the clowns eyes....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 18, 2018, 08:59:45 PM
i guess its time to start my damn game..... i wanna make a tiny rpg this week but that means a lot of boring menu programming so im not sure about the idea
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 18, 2018, 09:04:36 PM
i think i accidentally found the "easter egg"? im not sure what triggers it but the clowns face uhhh changes sometimes
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 18, 2018, 09:25:55 PM
i think this is my first time programming a turn based rpg battle system actually.... im thinking about how to structure it & it just seems like a pain in the ass no matter what
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 18, 2018, 09:30:13 PM
i dont like all this "planning and forethought" shit im having to do i wanna just make some crap.....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: cati on February 18, 2018, 11:13:57 PM
yeahhhhhhh i hate setting up all the backend systems at the start of gamedev every time it's so boring. its fine once the basics are there and things start working and you can just start playing about with what those systems actually do but like 99% of anything i try to make dies as soon i realise my e p i c   v i d e o g a m e   i d e a   t h a t   n e e d s   t o   b e    m a d e also needs me to set up the controls and the underlying logic and zzzzzz

i dont even know if theres any shortcuts here given that even if i set up a skeleton project, finding and tweaking all the variables to load in the right assets and everything else takes more time than if i just started from scratch
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on February 18, 2018, 11:45:44 PM
you could make tiny rpg entirely console-based

also click the clown is truly a classik
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 18, 2018, 11:45:54 PM
i have a "base project" file which implements the options menu thats in all my games and some other basic stuff like input handling and sizing the screen properly, & i find it much easier & nicer to use that than to start from a blank project..... i dont know how i ever got the motivation to make that thing tho

loading assets seems like it would be really annoying in things that dont have a graphical interface for it like game maker..... im not even sure what the best way to do that would be, like have some file where u copy paste in all the file paths or something? for sprites would you have to like specify the animation lengths and stuff manually? ugh
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on February 18, 2018, 11:53:40 PM
@finding files - it's not too difficult to just have it search for all files of a certain extension in a folder / subfolders and load them all up.

for sprites i had this system where each image was actually two layers, and one of the layers contained a bunch of metadata. however i recently switched to a thing where everything is just stored in giant 8x8 tilesets and i act like im working in assembly or something. (but yeha i have a giant lookup table with all the offsets and other data)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on February 18, 2018, 11:54:48 PM
id say i spend like 90% of my game dev time writing extensive boilerplate code + libraries that i rewrite every few months  :tomato: :tomato: :tomato:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: vgperson on February 19, 2018, 12:00:29 AM
The Hot Strat I use with Unity is to just make animations in GM8, save them with that so they become strips, and run with the "_strip4" notation it uses. To improve performance a bit, I do actually go like "arrow = loadTextureStrip("System/Arrow", 5)", specifying the animation frames manually so it doesn't have to guess, but I think you could be lazy and have it load every asset in specific folders into a dictionary, then reference that using frame-count-less names. In fact that's probably a great way to do it, though ideally, you'd only actually load resources as they need to be used.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 12:05:46 AM
game maker 8 best animation program 2009
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 01:12:44 AM
!!! unusual clown activity detected in my alt-tab menu !!!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 19, 2018, 01:22:12 AM
i think i will try to make something dumb in game maker in a few hours
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on February 19, 2018, 01:23:44 AM
trying to make a lil puzzly... spent a bit too long failing to get some animations working and it's kinda bedtime already but i might just stay up to finish the game part of it...

it's called sokosoko
(https://i.imgur.com/iqAAlIK.png)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 01:25:23 AM
wow glad everyones jammin!! :apple: :orange:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: cati on February 19, 2018, 01:28:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/C8r4cp9.png) (https://www.glorioustrainwrecks.com/node/11009)

i made another game  :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

it's something ive been wanting to make for a while but i finally did it yall
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 01:30:33 AM
holy smokes..... i probably wont play it until im done my game tho :honeydew:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on February 19, 2018, 01:34:01 AM
i just thought of a cool idea for sokosoko but also started feelin ill & fatigued... will try and finish and submit tomorrow instead!!! sorry!!!
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 19, 2018, 01:38:07 AM
shuxxx i dont have a numpad to play hold up! also i gave up after making one sprite in game maker...

also here's how we load hot sprites into asshat engine
(https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/H8i6ozz.png)
so yeah you have to manually write how many subimages, but there are also some little tags that begin with _ that do other shit
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 03:34:51 AM
dang hubs you r missing out by not making a game maker game...... check out this line of code i just wrote :tomato:
Code: [Select]
targeting_mode = skill_type[skill_get_id(selected_skill[?player])];(map[?key] is special gm syntax for accessing the value corresponding to a key in a ds_map, selected_skill is a ds_map that stores the currently selected skill for each battler, battler skill data is stored in ds_lists (one list per skill), skill_get_id is a script that just returns the element of the ds_list containing the skill id, skill_type is an array that stores for each skill id whether the skill targets a single enemy, a single party member, all enemies, etc.)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 03:42:29 AM
actually that code is wrong, because the selected_skill map stores an integer corresponding to the position in the battlers ds_list of all skills of the currently selected skill data ds_list, rather than the skill data ds_list itself. the correct code is
Code: [Select]
targeting_mode = skill_type[skill_get_id(player.skills[|selected_skill[?player]])];(list[|item] is shorthand for ds_list access, it would be even worse if i had to use the ds_list_whatever functions)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 04:10:29 AM
rpg battles are really hard actually..... im just realizing that i cant just have all battlers do their skills in order, for example if someone uses the "defend" skill, that has to be processed before all attacks against that battler so it can actually reduce damage taken..... so instead of just having skills happen immediately i have to build a skill list or something for each turn and then sift through it to figure out what actually goes down
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 19, 2018, 05:12:19 AM
Quote
skill_get_id is a script that just returns the element of the ds_list containing the skill id

hold on............... are you telling me there are convenient ways to access shit from ds_map but not ds_list?? if the problem is that skill_get_id has to iterate through the whole list,..,,.,., why isnt it just a ds_map instead
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 19, 2018, 05:14:18 AM
ok wait i saw the thing about [|nusty] working...... why the heck do you have to do use skill_get_id though
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 05:28:48 AM
oh its not necessary, its just better than using a magic number and having like list[|5] everywhere in the code or whatever. (the skill id is actually list[|0] but i have other similar functions for cleanly manipulating the other skill data)

i could also have defined an enum for the positions of different data in the list, and then i could write like list[|skill_data.skill_id] or something..... actually thats probably marginally better for performance than using script wrappers but whatever
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 19, 2018, 05:45:17 AM
ohhhh now i see. god all this junk when u could just have a skill class or enum with some fields/methods to retrieve properties....
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 07:01:03 AM
im going to bed lol..... heres what ive got so far https://www.glorioustrainwrecks.com/node/11011 (https://www.glorioustrainwrecks.com/node/11011)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 07:05:08 AM
clown status: (https://i.imgur.com/MvWjVhE.png)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on February 19, 2018, 03:46:30 PM
sokosoko! fairly short, i'll try and add in an undo button later

https://juner.itch.io/sokosoko

do i just press "add comment" to post my game on the jam page??
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 03:50:29 PM
the clown survived my computer hibernating......

my laptop actually has a full ass numpad for some reason so i was able to play hold up...... i like the silly sprites..... the game is a little busted without a stamina meter or something similar because you can just switch between mashing the top, middle and bottom rows of the numpad to clear out everything very quickly. im sure that strat fails eventually but it seems like it would take a really long time (i stopped after 1000 points)

i like the concept tho, i would check out an expanded version if u made one :dancedog:

oh hold on juner ill explain how gt submission works its a bit unintuitive
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 03:52:35 PM
you click "post" on the sidebar, then "game", then in the form that pops up, make sure "event created for" (near the bottom) is set to bedtime jam. ignore the "made for" box, its a weird legacy thing i think
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on February 19, 2018, 03:57:26 PM
thanks!

worried that in my quest to make an interesting puzzle some of the mechanics of sokosoko are a little underexplained but i'll see how it goes
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 04:17:36 PM
i just finished it :watermelon: its a really cool and clever idea & it was fun to solve.... however.....
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on February 19, 2018, 04:28:36 PM
oh heck i never considered the name thing... sorry... it does kinda set expectations about the ruleset...
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 19, 2018, 04:49:24 PM
sokosoko is super cute but i dont know what my goal is...... does it have to do with the burger's
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on February 19, 2018, 04:53:13 PM
yeha the goal is to get out the top of the first room in the game to escape to layer 0... sorry its not well explained
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 04:56:17 PM
oh heck i never considered the name thing... sorry... it does kinda set expectations about the ruleset...
hey its ok your game was verycute.....

i left comments on all the bedtime games on gt to be a good game jam host but it was hard to come up with them sometimes & i feel weird about it..... i had the same problem when i tried once to comment on all the ludum dare games i played..... maybe if i do another bedtime jam ill just comment on the games i actually have something to say about lol
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 19, 2018, 05:02:58 PM
wow i actually finished sokosoko!!!! very cute
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on February 19, 2018, 11:36:12 PM
thanky!

aimaina are you gonna keep working on slimes? the battle system seems like it could be really cool & tactical with the limited actions & low damage numbers making every choice significant
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 19, 2018, 11:43:19 PM
yeha i definitely wanna keep working on it, i didnt even get around to implementing the main mechanic since its related to leveling up...... i also have to keep plugging away at jump3 tho
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 20, 2018, 12:31:10 AM
from what i saw it seemed like parrying was the best choice for that first slime encounter...... but it seemed like i could get screwed over if one of them slimes got a critical strike on me
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 20, 2018, 12:43:07 AM
lol the way to do the encounter is to just spam defend & perfect guard and then all the slimes run out of actions, its really silly
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 20, 2018, 12:46:27 AM
oh wowww
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 20, 2018, 04:26:15 AM
http://venbrux.com/work/page/2

i was checking out wubly (not very good lol) but it turns out the person who made it seems to have made a lot of things i played when i was younger!!!! (karoshi, pazzon, frozzd, mubbly tower)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 20, 2018, 05:10:22 AM
thats cool.... aside from karoshi i havent played any of the ones you mentioned tho

i remember execution lol, it was a game where you shoot a guy, and then it saves the fact that you shot him in some very obscure place (probably the windows registry) so that you cant take back your choice!!!! stuff like that was a pretty big deal back in teh days when nobody knew whether games are art yet

also cant forget blopper.... a true classic (not really but its sorta cute i think)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on February 20, 2018, 05:18:57 AM
Yeah 2DCube made a bunch of cool stuff.  Karoshi was a good one.

I remember getting bored in Frozzd though.  Never clicked for me.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 20, 2018, 03:32:04 PM
i think with a lot of them i was very impressed you could do it in gamer maker. i dont remember finishing frozzd. maybe i should try these hot games again. apparently c418 (minecraft music) made the music for one of the games i mentioned earlier,??
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: dcco on February 22, 2018, 04:45:53 PM
do yall have tips for designing menus / title screens  / file selects? i feel like.... it's hard not to make them just feel like weird static images
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: cati on February 22, 2018, 04:52:01 PM
i never get far enough with anything i make to actually add title screens or anything, but i think adding a scrolling background's a p good shortcut to making it feel alive

e: like this except not made with photoshop's shitty animation tools in 5 minutes

(https://i.imgur.com/hJ4mic3.gif)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 22, 2018, 08:19:06 PM
i think the scrolly background looks good.... i generally put no effort into my title screens so i dont really have tips. maybe making things move subtly would help too (like having the hold up logo and the menu float up and down a bit) but that might be too overwhelming?
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on February 23, 2018, 03:22:10 AM
> arrow could bob.
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 23, 2018, 04:22:22 AM
and it should say "hey! remember click the clown???" every time it bobs
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 23, 2018, 05:23:29 AM
i actually never did the click the clown tutorial..... when i started with gm the classic tutorial game was called "hit the ball" and it was exactly the same as click the clown but with a red ball instead of a clown. i wonder when they upgraded to the clown
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 23, 2018, 05:24:13 AM
speaking of clowns, im still running click t clown. im about 75% to the halfway point i would say
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on February 23, 2018, 07:14:44 AM
keep going!!!!!!!!!!!! :dancedog:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 25, 2018, 09:07:54 AM
wow i didnt know the my hero academia season 2 op was by kenshi yonezu......
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on February 26, 2018, 06:26:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yW4YNXF.png)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on March 06, 2018, 12:24:13 AM
the bar is dangerously close to filling up. the clown goes down tonight
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: hubol on March 06, 2018, 01:19:12 AM
aw yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on March 06, 2018, 01:22:02 AM
click t clown ending spoiler warning!!!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: cati on March 06, 2018, 01:34:52 AM
congrats!!! :pear: :pear: :pear:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on March 06, 2018, 01:39:23 AM
thanks 4 make :honeydew: i started on feb 18 so it took about 15 days to finish....... i didnt have my computer awake the whole time tho
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on March 28, 2019, 12:03:07 PM
i found out someone has made their own vers of sokosoko and is making their own levels :o
https://pancelor.github.io/sokosoko/

still not managed to quite figure out Dolphin...
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on March 28, 2019, 03:16:42 PM
oh cool.... i also saw this on twiter the other day but i dont think they are aware of your game https://twitter.com/ryan_ayton/status/1110141165972742145?s=19
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: juner on March 28, 2019, 03:54:12 PM
whoa i like their funnel block mechanic a lot
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on April 16, 2019, 01:18:52 AM
cute jump has finally been 100%ed by someone who isnt me.....
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on April 16, 2019, 01:56:16 AM
they streamed the end of it too if you want to watch someone die over and over for 5 hours https://www.twitch.tv/lawatson/videos?filter=archives&sort=time (its split into a lot of videos because their internet kept crashing)
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: suizinshu on April 16, 2019, 02:47:27 AM
that's super amazing......... god i can't even play platformers anymore haha. those levels are works of art
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: suizinshu on April 16, 2019, 03:15:20 AM
i tried to play again and it crashes like every 2 seconds :(

i tried using music mode 3 but it still happens.... maybe it's just my computer
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on April 16, 2019, 03:38:34 AM
hmm weird.... i have no idea how to fix crash bugs for that game unfortunately (other than porting it to game maker studio which..... i dont wanna do)

im glad you liked the levs tho.....  :honeydew:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: wilde32 on April 20, 2019, 08:45:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/fYodeTj.png)


i give up
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on April 20, 2019, 10:25:18 PM
i think this game is cancelled but thanx for playin :honeydew:
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on April 20, 2019, 10:33:23 PM
btw i released two hot new games this week and TechGeniux interviewed me about em http://techgeniux.com/this-week-in-review-april-15/
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: SquareWheel on April 21, 2019, 12:35:13 AM
Why'd he rewrite half of your dang quote
Title: Re: jump3
Post by: aimaina on April 21, 2019, 12:39:53 AM
told em 2 clean up the spellin & grammer to make me sound smarter